Neil Hughes: What does entrepreneurship really look like when it's grounded in values, community and long-term impact? Well, my guest today brings a perspective that challenges the narrow version of startup culture that many people grow up believing in. And my guest today is Professor Danielle Vogel. And she's someone who has built companies, backed founders and helped shape the next generation of entrepreneurial thinkers– all while staying deeply connected to sustainability and inclusion.

And before stepping into academia, Danielle founded and ran Glenn's Garden Center in Washington, D.C., a climate-driven grocery store that became the launchpad for more than 90 local food businesses. And something that I think needs shouting about is that many of those founders that she helped were women, and many came from communities that were still underrepresented in the world of entrepreneurship.

And it's that real-world experience that now shapes how she teaches, invests and mentors. So as Assistant Director of the Valoric Center for Entrepreneurship at American University, Danielle works at the intersection of education and most importantly, action. And she supports students through undergraduate and graduate programs, competitions, incubators, and hands-on learning, while also investing directly and through initiatives like SoGal Ventures.

So, today's conversation is one for students wondering where to start, founders questioning where they belong, and indeed anyone that's curious about what it means to think entrepreneurially in today's world. And it's also about taking first steps, building with intention, and expanding the very definition of entrepreneurship far beyond a single job title.

And let me tell you, there is a heartwarming, inspiring story behind it all. In fact, I would argue there are many stories in this podcast. Now, before we begin today's interview, and there's some great insights in that, I just want to give a special mention to my friends at Donodo, who are passionate about the future and logical data management and agentic AI. Because everywhere you look, agentic AI is undoubtedly the next big shift.

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So, a massive warm welcome to the show. Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?

Danielle Vogel: Absolutely. My name is Danielle Vogel. I am the assistant director of the Valoric Center for Entrepreneurship at American University. I'm also a member of the management department faculty. So I teach a bunch of classes at the intersection of sustainability and entrepreneurship through the Kogod School of Business at AU. I'm really thrilled to be here. Thanks so much for inviting me to this chat. I'm looking forward to it.

Neil Hughes: It's a real pleasure to have you on here. And one of the things that I love talking to my guests about, and one of the reasons I love recording this is finding out more about people's origin stories. And a quick high level look at yours, I quickly learned that you moved from founding a values driven business, investing in others and teaching the next generation, which immediately set off my tech spidey senses. But I've got to ask, how did your own founder journey begin and what moment shaped how you think about companies today? It feels like a very unique vantage point you've got here. And I'd love to learn more about how it all began and where it began.

Danielle Vogel: Sure. This is actually career number four for me. And to the untrained eye, the path seems wayward perhaps. But from my perspective, there's always been a very clear through line and that through line is climate change. So it's true that I happen to be a fourth generation grocer. My father was a grocer. So was his dad. So was my mom's dad. So this is a tradition that stretches back 100 years on both sides of the family. So I was very much genetically coded to open a grocery store, but that was not my interest. Growing up, I was singularly focused on working for my hometown congressman on his policy staff. And so, you know, I finished my political science major second semester of my sophomore year. And then I interned five times for my congressman in college and went straight to Capitol Hill after I graduated.

And what I came to realize was that if he intersected a lawyer on the way to a vote, he was going to take the lawyer's counsel over mine, no matter how well researched my position was. And so I drew the only logical conclusion, which was I had to go to law school. And so I went to law school at American University, coincidentally. And I was intending to go straight back to the Hill to sort of pick up exactly where I left off. But my boss was not reelected.

And so that closed the only door I had any interest in walking through. And so I ended up going to the Department of Justice where I was an environmental litigator, suing power plants for violating the Clean Air Act. And to be perfectly frank, litigation did not suit me. And the reason for that was because it's extremely inefficient. It takes so long to get claims to court. And when you're talking about environmental claims, the polluters keep polluting in the meantime. And so we were, you know, standing at trial in these big cases and we were winning sometimes but losing often. And that just wasn't—. The pace of progress was too slow for me. And so I ended up going back to the Hill, this time working in the Senate for Senator Lieberman from Connecticut on massive economy-wide comprehensive climate change legislation, which, as you may know, was an unsuccessful effort. We absolutely do not have a climate law to speak of in the U.S. that includes emissions limitations. And so I eventually just grew really frustrated with the pace of, or I should say, the lack of congressional action on climate change. And so I decided to start a business about it. And sort of reaching back to earlier in my story, you know, I was put on this planet to bag groceries, right?

Neil Hughes: Yeah, Yeah.

Danielle Vogel: And so what I decided to do was open a climate change motivated grocery store. And so that's exactly what we did. On Earth Day of 2013 we opened our doors. And this was a business that put the climate first in every single decision we made. So whether it was the energy we consumed, our water usage, packaging, lighting, waste streaming, to, most notably, the integrity of the products we were putting on our shelves. So, every single thing that made it into our building was selected through a climate forward criteria. And the idea was essentially we were very much a carefully engineered climate change agent parading around as a very pretty grocery store. Because I wanted to prove that you could take control of the pace of progress you were making, even when that progress was incremental. So we used to like to refer to it as progress one bite at a time.

And so over the course of that experience, I operated the store for 10 years before successfully exiting and selling the business in 2021. We were able to launch almost 100 local small food businesses. The number was 96, actually. And of those 96, about 55 were owned by women and just shy of 25 were founded by people of color. And so not only were we putting sort of the climate on the menu, but we were able to create a menu of our shared values and put it on offer to our community. And so that's really the perspective that I applied to— applied to running my business, to investing in businesses subsequently looking for and platforming folks that are prioritizing sustainability concerns in their operations. That was a very long answer. I apologize.

Neil Hughes: Not at all. Not at all. It is a fantastic story. And it took me on a real journey there. At one stage, it almost felt like the scene in Godfather 3 where Al Pacino said, just when I think I'm out, they pull me back in. It was almost your destiny to get involved there. But you've gone out, you've learned a different set of skills and taken it to a whole different level. It's— One of the reasons I love talking to founders is it almost feels that the universe gives us all a little nudge in the right direction sometimes in ways that we wouldn't see looking forward, trying to join up the dots like Steve Jobs. It's only when you look back that you can see how it all joins up, right?

Danielle Vogel: Absolutely. Thank you. That's a very charitable read on this story, but I deeply appreciate your perspective.

Neil Hughes: And of course, when you started Glen's Garden Market in Washington, D.C., what did running a climate motivated grocery store teach you about the realities of entrepreneurship that no classroom or university ever could?

Danielle Vogel: Yeah, I mean, we've got to keep in mind that now I'm an entrepreneurship professor, so I do believe there are things to be learned in the classroom. I'm— a lot of it from that perspective.

Neil Hughes: Yeah.

Danielle Vogel: But the fact is, when it comes to entrepreneurship, there's no substitute for getting practice in the try, fail, learn cycle. You've got to do it over and over and over again because at its core, an entrepreneur is a professional problem solver, right? We are multivariable, complex problem solvers. That's the job. And so essentially, you just have to build your confidence with that skill set. And so, you know, when transitioning from the United States Senate to operating a service business, trust me when I tell you, I had just so many experiences that I could never have anticipated. Just so many times did I think to myself, huh, this sort of thing didn't happen in the Senate, you know? But the only way to get better at doing it is to do it.

And that's why at American University, we really prioritize experiential learning in our entrepreneurship programs. It's important to have context. Of course it is, right? And we teach the Lean Startup method. We push our students through the process of customer discovery. They learn about validation and prototyping and all of those great things. And the best part about that is that they're getting practice doing it in a very low stakes environment, right?

So it's a very different thing to come out and try your first business having gotten a few reps in. Because when you sign that paperwork to put your house on the line, you're operating under a very different set of pressures, right? And so, you know, learning in the classroom at AU is as much about doing as it is about absorbing what others have done. And I think that that nexus is an incredibly important context in which to train the entrepreneurs of the next generation.

Neil Hughes: And through Glenn's, you helped launch more than 90 local food businesses, many led by women and founders of color. Inspiring story here. But what did you learn about access, support and barriers by working so closely with early stage entrepreneurs? It must have been a real melting pot and so fantastic to be surrounded by like-minded people. What did you learn from that?

Danielle Vogel: Yeah, it was terrific. I mean, the bottom line is the math is not good when it comes to access to capital for women founders and founders of color. It's terrible. And so we really made a habit of seeking out folks who had great ideas and sort of the right combination of grit, resilience, and leadership skills to be successful. And we put their products on our shelves.

One of the things that's really tough about grocery is that it's a very, very slender margin industry to the tune of 1%. And so we made some really concerted decisions to reduce our own profit margin in order to create a sense of cost competitiveness for emerging brands that would have otherwise almost been disqualified by the consumer because they were at the top of that price bracket within their category. So, not only were we giving them a place on our shelves, we were cutting our margin in order to make those products appear more cost competitive. And the result of that was that we were able to increase their velocity, meaning we were able to sell more units. And the more units we were able to sell, they were able to create economies of scale to drive their prices down. As they drove those down, obviously that was passed through ultimately to the consumer. So the fact of the matter is, there's no rule that says you need a credential to start a business, right?

So we've got a lot of folks that have a good idea but don't understand the fundamentals necessarily. Not all, right? But there are many in the food space that make a thing that their friends like and they think that that is good enough to create a business about. Not always true. Sometimes true. Not always true. And so what I learned was sort of in the absence of access to capital, those really strategic, critical partnerships with like-minded retailers could be difference-making when it came to emerging brands.

Neil Hughes: And of course, you now operate on the investor side through direct investments and your work with Sogal Ventures. So I'm curious, how is sitting on the other side of the table, how's that changed how you evaluate founders and ideas? Any big changes there?

Danielle Vogel: Oh, it's a lot easier. It's a much more luxurious position to be in, right? Because again, my house is no longer on the line, right? It's just a very different relationship to the capital and frankly to the founders. So, I learned about Sogal Ventures because there's a film about them called Show Her the Money, which we screened at American University. And this happens to be a venture capital firm that is almost entirely dedicated to empowering women founders and founders of color. And so it's like right up my alley in terms of my investment thesis. They're not singularly focused on food ventures, which of course was my perspective when I was running Glenn's.

But it's given me really interesting entree into the world of female founders operating in different industries. And I've had a chance to learn a ton about the economics of the world beyond food, which has been a fun education for me. But really, at the end of the day, it goes back to what I mentioned earlier, which is that in terms of venture capital placement, the math is not good for female founders. And so having an opportunity to be a part of an organization that's specifically seeking out women who are really doing good stuff and who have the right fundamentals, it's been—. I don't want to use the word empowering because that's a bit trade at this point, but it's been fun and exciting. And I've really enjoyed the learning process.

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So, here in 2026, in your role in the American University and Valoric Center for Entrepreneurship, how do you bridge theory and practice when teaching undergraduate and graduate students about sustainable entrepreneurship? I think it's such incredible work you're doing here. And also inspiring the next generation and a generation that wants to make a difference, too. But how do you bridge that theory and practice?

Danielle Vogel: I think you're going to get me in trouble with the research faculty with this answer. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of our entrepreneurship professors at American University are executives in residence. So, we are founders ourselves. And so, the way I like to put it to my students is I've earned these wounds on the small business battlefield. And they're still, like, fresh and the cuts are deep. Right? And so, at the end of the day, our students are paying a lot of money to learn not just skills, but to expand their context and their frame of reference. To really be better, more empowered decision makers when they're done in our classrooms. Better communicators. More impactful self-advocates, etc. And so, part of our job in terms of building that context is giving them the language and the frameworks. Right? They have to understand the mechanics of how to start a business. But at the same time, we have to push them experientially through that try, fail, learn cycle. Because if they don't get those reps in, they don't build that resilience muscle. And so, I think the needle has to be threaded pretty carefully between making sure that they are, you know, confidently conversational in the language of the industry. They understand, again, the framework of how these things work. But they also just have to try it. There's no substitute for experience.

And so, I think, you know, to your question, bridging the notion of theory and practice is exactly the point of entrepreneurship education at the university level.

Neil Hughes: 100% with you there. And you mentioned language and frameworks. I think many younger people, when they hear a word like entrepreneurship, they might immediately think of startup founder. So, how do you redefine that idea to include just an entrepreneurial mindset that applies far beyond just launching a company?

Danielle Vogel: Exactly that way. We take it on exactly as you've just described it, right? In my classroom, I start every class by explaining, I hope that some of you start businesses. My expectation is that that will be the minority. But every one of you has the capacity to exercise the entrepreneurial mindset. And then we talk about sort of what are the adjectives you associate with the word entrepreneur. And then let's think about what the worldview is of the entrepreneurial mindset. And what we're talking about and showing them is the entrepreneurial mindset can be exercised no matter where you go. It can be exercised by an intern on their first day at a new job. The idea is essentially a bias toward action and seeing the world as a set of opportunities to create value, right? And so, these classes are not necessarily filled with future founders, but they're absolutely filled with smart students who have the capacity to be highly capable problem solvers. And we're building their confidence and their competence in that key respect.

Neil Hughes: In many of the conversations that I've enjoyed with younger people, one of the things that I've learned is that they've got very little interest in checking in, checking out for a nine-to-five job, going through the motions for 30, 40 years. They want to have meaning. They want to make a difference. And it's so inspiring to hear this. And for students or first-time founders who might be going this way but feel overwhelmed before they even start because it can be intimidating and overwhelming, are there any practical first steps that you'd advise to help them move from idea to action? That's where they need that little bit of help, that little bit of encouragement. But any advice there?

Danielle Vogel: Absolutely. So, I definitely feel surrounded by that mindset on a regular basis, what you're describing.

Neil Hughes: Yeah.

Danielle Vogel: Especially because I teach at the intersection of sustainability and entrepreneurship, and there's a sense of existential climate dread and urgency. And I happen to believe strongly that the antidote to anxiety is action. And so, whether they start businesses or align with businesses that are making progress, they are making incremental progress or they're making substantial progress.

But the point is, sitting around and wringing our hands and being, you know, overcome by climate anxiety is not necessarily the path forward. And so, my advice is, honestly, learn on somebody else's dime first, right? Go get an internship. Go get a job in the field. Entrepreneurship doesn't necessarily mean you've got to create something that's never existed in any form before, right? It can mean you're offering an improvement that's 10 times better than what already existed. But in order to engineer an improvement, you need to build your context and understand what's out there, what your competitors are doing. And so, let me tell you, when I was engineering my career shift from the United States Senate to opening a grocery store, I got a job at my closest competitor. I went to work for Whole Foods, literally working the cash register and bagging groceries. And unfortunately, when I left the Senate, there were a couple of little news articles about what I had intended to do. And so the head of the store called me into her office and said, "You know, Danielle, our people read the same newspapers your people read." And she realized immediately that I was engaging in kind of corporate espionage. And I said, so, okay, so two weeks, she said, two minutes, get out of here.

Neil Hughes: Oh no!

Danielle Vogel: A hundred percent. But I learned so much in the process, right?

So, I was a lawyer with 10 years of Capitol Hill experience bagging groceries. And the experience is what you make of it. I went for a really specific reason. I was trying to learn about how they manage their product categories, how they decide on margins, right? It's not necessarily the typical grocery bagger story, but by getting in with somebody doing it really well, I could figure out how I could do it even better. So, that's my best advice for founders who are interested, especially in improving existing industries. Go get some experience. Learn how they do it. And let them pay you for the opportunity to do so, but don’t get fired!

Neil Hughes: Again, what a fantastic story. Brilliant. Brilliant. And if we were to look ahead into the future, how do you hope education, investment, and community support can evolve even more to create that more inclusive and sustainable future for entrepreneurship for the next generation? And also, what role do you see yourself playing in that shift? I can tell by talking today it's something you're incredibly passionate about.

Danielle Vogel: Absolutely. So, I think that folks are really quick to toss the word mentor around.

Neil Hughes: Yeah.

Danielle Vogel: And they don't necessarily afford it, the respect. They don't afford that relationship, the respect that it deserves. And it's really important to find folks in the industry that are willing to help you learn the ropes and connect you with opportunity and all that good stuff. But I would really urge situational awareness when you're entering into a new relationship with a stranger, tossing around the word mentorship. Because with that word comes, frankly, a bit of a burden, right? And so, instead, I would counsel emerging entrepreneurs to think about the notion of networking as simply finding commonalities upon which to build relationships that could go in any direction, right?

So, if you're interested in going into an industry, you really want to spend some time looking through LinkedIn, figuring out how you're connected to folks that could be helpful in terms of providing advice. And, you know, entering those relationships in a way that is respectful. You've got to go into those meetings researched. You need to understand who you're speaking with, right? You've got to be respectful of the time of the person that's willing to give you that advice. But that's the whole ballgame, right?

It's building that network. It's understanding who the players are, how you can connect with them in a meaningful and productive way. And so, that is what we're constantly encouraging our students to do, is to build their network throughout the college experience that they've got folks to call on when they're done. But in terms of the way I'm interacting with that, I just love talking to students that are in especially the early ideation phase that are just getting started, right? Folks that come to me that don't have the language, that don't have the experience. And we can really think through whether the problem they're trying to solve is a pet peeve or a problem that they could create a solution to that people are willing to pay for. And so, I think, frankly, the classroom is the very perfect place for me to be. And in addition to teaching our classes, we also run a business incubator. So, it's a free program for American University students and recent graduates who are interested in starting their own businesses.

It's – we don't take any equity. It's education first. And we just provide a little bit of structure and some accountability to help them along that journey. Because at the end of the day, entrepreneurship is super lonely. But if we're able to cohort them and support them with faculty mentors and also peer mentors, provide access to a little bit of funding and introduce them to the folks that we know, it starts to feel a little bit less lonely. And then they emerge, again, more capable and confident problem solvers. Now, they're much better prepared to serve their businesses.

Neil Hughes: Wow. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story, your inspiring work. And before I let you go, I'm going to ask you to leave one final gift to complement your invaluable insights today. And that is either a book that means something to you that we can add to a wish list or a song for our Spotify playlist. I don't mind which, but what would you like to leave everyone with and why?

Danielle Vogel: Neil, this is a gift to me! o I think there is a chance that the Valoric Center for Entrepreneurship could, in fact, be the only entrepreneurship center in America with a theme song. And yes, and the theme song is called Believe. It's by an artist named Marcel. And it was deeply inspirational to Gary Valoric, who named our center. And he is a many, many, many times over extremely successful entrepreneur. And this song is all about resilience and perseverance and doing absolutely whatever it takes. And it's a song that deeply motivated Mr. Valoric as he founded his many businesses and which he felt was really important for us to share with our students. And so that's a bit of a legacy that Mr. Valoric has left because we're able to share not just, you know, the frameworks and not just the language and not just the access to internships and all that good stuff, but this almost like multimedia sensory experience to help them identify and understand that they are not the only ones going through this thing. And we're here to sort of support them through their journey, courtesy of Mr. Valoric and this really cool song called Believe by Marcel. So I highly recommend that you check it out.

Neil Hughes: Oh, what a great choice. I'm going to be adding that straight to our Spotify playlist.

Danielle Vogel: It’s a good one.

Neil Hughes: Speaking of which, you've had a phenomenal career and an incredible story behind it. And if I was to ask you just to look back before I let you go at your career, and I think none of us are able to achieve any success without a little help along the way. And very often it's someone that might pull us to one side, see something and invest some little time in us that shapes our career in ways that they don't even know about. So is there a particular person you're grateful towards that we can maybe give a little shout out to today?

Danielle Vogel: You are just showering me with gifts, Neil. Thank you for this opportunity to thank the people that have helped me along the way. So there is one name that immediately comes to mind without question or reservation. It is Tommy White. So Tommy White is the director of the Valoric Center for Entrepreneurship. We met many years ago when I was still running Glenn's. He would bring me in as a guest speaker in his entrepreneurship classes, and then he brought a field trip to the store to see us in action. I absolutely would not be at American University if not for Tommy White. And he has served as an unbelievable resource to not just me, you know, sort of helping me navigate this career transition, but he is beloved by his students. He's been named professor of the year many times over. And as I always tell our students, you have to pass through Tommy White's classroom. He's a legend, and it is an indelible and phenomenal part of the American University experience. So thank you for giving me a chance to thank him properly. He has been just a kind, wonderful, like incredible resource to me, my colleagues, the university, and our students. So shout out to Tommy White.

Neil Hughes: So a massive shout out to Tommy White there. And from what you've told me about him, he sounds incredibly kind and possibly humble too, blissfully unaware on the scale of impact that he's not only had on you, but teams of students throughout his career as well. And it's so important to recognize that, because as I said, he's probably blissfully unaware. But we see you, Tommy White. So a big shout out from the UK. But for everyone listening wanting to find out more about anything we've covered today, and we did cover a lot of ground there, where would you like to point everyone listening?

Danielle Vogel: I'd just love to direct you to the Valoric Center for Entrepreneurship's LinkedIn, right? So that's the sort of venue we use to talk about the opportunities that we're offering, the ways in which we're empowering our students. We like to highlight our student founders so you can learn about what they're doing. And if you'd like to connect, just send me a note through LinkedIn. I'm Danielle Vogel.

Neil Hughes: Awesome. I'll add a link to the Valoric Center, the website, the LinkedIn, the socials, and your own LinkedIn. Now, I would urge anybody listening that feel a little inspired by the conversation today, go check that stuff out and let me know your thoughts. But more than anything, Danielle, what a story. And I can't believe we packed so much into a 30-minute podcast. But thank you so much for sharing your story today.

Danielle Vogel: Thank you, Neil. I really appreciate your time.

Neil Hughes: One of the many things that stayed with me after this conversation is not just Danielle’s experience but it’s the way she reframes entrepreneurship as a mindset rather than a destination. And she reminded us today that building something meaningful does not always begin with a pitch deck or a funding round. Sometimes it starts with curiosity, service, or a willingness to solve problems that matter to you, that matter in your own community. And for students listening especially, I think that perspective can feel both grounding and empowering.

And Danielle's work as a founder, investor, and educator shows that entrepreneurship can be inclusive, can be practical, but most importantly of all, deeply human. And it can live inside classrooms, local neighborhoods, and personal values, not just in those startup headlines that we see on LinkedIn. So if this episode sparks something in you, whether it is an idea, a question, or a bit of confidence to take that first step, that is the real win for me. And it raises a final question worth sitting with. How might your own entrepreneurial mindset shape what you build next, what you do next, and even if you're still figuring out where to begin? And remember, if you go to techtalksnetwork.com, you'll find a link to this episode. You'll also find all the links that Danielle mentioned there, along with 4,000 other interviews. I'd love to carry on this conversation. I implore you to contact Danielle, and let's see where all this leads.

Because as I always say, technology works best when it brings people together. And on that cheesy, and yet very important, I'm going to walk off into the sunset now. But I will be back again very soon with another guest. So thank you to Danielle for joining me. Thank you to Tommy White for being Tommy White. And thank you to each and every one of you for listening. Speak with you soon. Bye for now.